Tuesday, October 14, 2008

From Stella

Stella's comment in the post below - My responses in RED

McCain's inability to stay on-topic at the debate was evident: if he isn't worried about what Obama says to his face, he should be. Preposterous! Obama isn't worthy to shine McCain's shoes. He's out of touch with the middle class. I know plenty of people like John McCain. I know none that are like Obama. I relate more to McCain and Palin. Unfortunately, I know too many blowhard liars like Biden. I mean, Maggie, do you think $5 million per year is a middle-class family? No and neither does McCain. That's a silly statement taken out of context. McCain joked that it would be twisted when he said it.

Obama openly admitted to smoking pot: what does that have to do with the issues. Conservatives attack Progressives when our candidates lie about smoking pot (Clinton), and criticize when our candidates demonstrate integrity, as Obama did. Even Progressives laughed at Clinton's, "I didn't inhale." I don't think telling America that you "did a little blow when you had the money" demonstrates *integrity*. I think it demonstrates poor judgement and should be portrayed as a fault that was overcome.

Speaking of over-the-top, even Karl Rove (c.f. Fox News) and Newt Gingrich firmly stated McCain's attacks have been "over-the-top." Citing Karl Rove and Newt Gingrich, funny! Well, I disagree with both of them firmly.

First, running mate Sarah Palin accused Obama of "palling around with terrorists," a clear reference to Ayers, and suggested McCain would go after Obama in last week's debate.... That drew the ire of conservatives. Said Gingrich: "I can't defend it", referring to McCain's vicious attacks.

Polls have now swung widely to Barack Obama. In desperation, the GOP and McCain have abandoned any pretext of honor and started a smear campaign beyond any in recent memory. Lies being spread about Obama... We're seeing the result of their failed policies, but they will try to convince us black is white, up is down, and day is night in their attempt to maintain power at all costs.

I think his connections with both Ayers and Dorhn are damning statements about his judgement. He is running on character.....he has no record. I don't care what Karl or Newt think of this as a "strategy". It's not a "strategy for me. I find it profoundly disturbing. I think it's important that Americans here who William Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn are. Every 9/11 we say "Never forget". Well, it was on a much, much smaller scale, but Americans should also never forget the WeatherUnderground.

The point of the post was that it is ridiculous to insinuate that facing Obama in any forum frightens John McCain.


Stella said...

Maggie, I get a whole post and Princess Crabby responses on your blog? I'm honored.

Why isn't Obama worthy to shine McCain's shoes? Not a fair comment. If you know plenty of people like John McCain, clearly we run in different financial circles. When I consider McCain not knowing how many houses he owns and his 13 cars, I stand by my statement that he's out of touch. I do agree that my "$5 million comment" is a silly statement.

Obama smoked pot and he stated "It was reflective of the struggles and confusion of a teenage boy," he said. "Teenage boys are frequently confused."

Obama clearly states his youthful indiscretions as a fault that was overcome. At the Civil Forum for the Presidency, candidates' stated their greatest moral failure. "Obama cited his adolescent drug use while McCain said his was failing his first marriage." Obama admitted his "error," and should not be castigated.

Compared with recreational use and/or abuse of alcohol and tobacco, Marijuana is significantly less dangerous than alcohol. Although I'm not a user, I think the demonization of a political candidate who smoked pot is a uninformed position; something like Reefer Madness.

Off-topic, the National Cancer Insitute cites marijuana as an excellent treatment for cancer patients, Cuts Lung Cancer Tumor Growth In Half, and may stall brain tumor growth. To ignore this critical medical research means people suffer as a result.

Amused at this liberal citing from Rove and Gingrich? Sure you are. Why not? I can't believe I agree with them.

When ranking intellects from McCain's own party disagree with the political campaign, that's dangerous. Rove is a brilliant campaign strategist. Do I like his politics? No. Would I listen to him if I were McCain? Politico also cites the GOP mud-slinging. There are scores of legitimate sites that call McCain's political ads questionable. So, would mind giving my your perspective on why you disagree with them?

I think it's important that Americans here who William Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn are. I, of course, vehemently disagree with their actions, which occurred in a time when the social structure of our nation differed. Police clubbed students to death at Kent and Ohio State. Nevertheless, violence is always the wrong choice, and I'll never disagree with you on that point.

Interestingly, Ayers states: My memoir is from start to finish a condemnation of terrorism, of the indiscriminate murder of human beings, whether driven by fanaticism or official policy... I said I had a thousand regrets, but no regrets for opposing the war with every ounce of my strength.

The Washington Post cite this "connection." According to Fact Checker: The McCain campaign is distorting the Obama-Ayers relationship, and exaggerating their closeness. There is no evidence that Obama has "lied" about his dealings with Ayers.

It was McCain lied that Obama never disclosed his minimal relationship with Ayers.

One reason I support Obama arises from my distaste of McCain's "pro-life" record and Palin's belief that no woman should have an abortion, even in cases of rape, I ask myself: "Is it any of her business to tell another woman what to do?:

This was fun. No sarcasm intended: I write this with all sincerity. Shall we do it again, soon?

BostonMaggie said...

Why isn't Obama worthy to shine McCain's shoes?

Stop! You can't be serious. McCain has devoted his whole adult life to a cause greater than himself. Obama has devoted himself to self promotion. Which in and of itself is not a problem for me. I am all about *Princess Crabby* but I would never have the timerity to compare myself to someone like John McCain.

Obama smoked pot - yes. Pot is no big deal - concur. Obama also did cocaine. Cocaine is a big deal in my book and not something to be applauded as a youthful indiscretion.

McCain doesn't own the houses, Cindy does and their finances have always been separate. I am sure some of those homes are merely investments. And if McCain had answered about the homes that he considered homes, he would have gotten it wrong. Then they would have jumped all over that. It was a lose/lose question for him.

My feelings about revealing the Obama-Ayers-Dohrn connection have nothing to do with political strategy that's why I dismiss Newt & Karl. I don't care if it's a smart political move. I was horrified when Bob Beckel (a Democrat) said that before this not a 100 people in America knew who Ayers was. I knew.

I don't care what Ayers writes in his memoir. What's that worth anyway? He is a terrorist, his words are as meaningless as Osama bin Laden's.

McCain didn't lie. I don't care how Factchecker spins it. I watched his answer when Clinton brought it up during the primary. Obama sought to downplay it and obfuscate. Obama was not completely truthful about the connection then and he is still not being forthright. McCain called him on it. McCain is right.
That clip shows his first response on Ayers. He called the connection flimsy. That's a lie. Plus no one even brings up the fact that Michelle, Barack and Dohrn worked together at the law firm Sidley & Austin.

Factchecker's new motto should be "It depends on what your definition of lie is." Geez, Stella, even the NYT had to admit that Obama downplayed it. That's Obama's strategy. You confront him with something, like Rev. Wright. First he says, it's not a big deal. Then crap comes out. Now it's "I didn't hear it." Then the public doesn't buy it. Then it's "Well now it's wrong." No, it was wrong all along and Obama just waited until he saw which way the wind was blowing. I don't serve on many boards....but how do you do that without exchanging ideas with people?

I understand that abortion is a factor for a number of people, I just think it's a non-issue. If you think McCain could get anyone through the Senate that would overturn Roe v. Wade, you're dreaming. Remember whoever wins has to deal with Pelosi, Reid, et al.

Stella said...

Maggie, I trust neither Pelosi nor Reid to stand up for Roe v. Wade. They've caved so many times, I'm starting to call them spelunkers. Palin wants Roe overturned. I cannot call abortion a non-issue. Thousands of women died in back alley abortions before 1972; I am loathe to see history repeat itself and afraid it might with a McCain-Palin Administration. Maggie, I sincerely hope I am dreaming.

I did not know about the Sidley & Austin connection. More research for me. Thanks for that info.

There's a lot of stuff Americans don't know. I, like you, knew who Ayers was, and agreed wholeheartedly with you on anti-violence. My father is a savant when it comes to politics and history. At 6:00, the evening news was a staple in our house. I was schooled young.

I, too, think cocaine is a loathsome drug, which has killed and ruined many lives. But, Maggie, I doubt if Obama is using any drugs now or applauding his use of cocaine. It's a non-issue. So, for that matter, is John McCain's first marriage. They both came clean, and it's time to let it go.

There are too many issues I have with McCain's voting record and his closeness to Bush to support him. He was a different man before the 2000 election, truly a maverick working in bipartisanship.

I'll get back to you on Ayers. (You know I will.) Maybe it's time to delete Fact Checker from my bookmarks? Take care.

Stella said...

McCain doesn't own the houses, Cindy does... Ah, so McCain is a "kept" man.

SK said...

I find your exchange both enlightening and a bit exasperating. :)

"Ah, so McCain is a "kept" man." If you want to put it that way then yes, to a MUCH lesser degree than John Kerry. But that was fine with with Dems so why are they bringing it up now?

Pot? Cocaine? Suddenly they are non-issues with Dems, when they were HUGE issues when it involved our current President.

Obama's connection to terrorists and blatant racists like Ayers and others, is also a non-issue and not important according to Dems. Yet in an attempt to make the Bush's look bad, they tried to say that a car accident that Laura Bush had at 16 yrs old, was hushed up and charges squashed by the Bush family. Just to show that the Bush family had total disregard for the law and think they're better than everybody else. Total. Bull. Shit. She didn't even KNOW them then, so however it was handled at the time had nothing to do with them. It's been said that they got the record sealed. Not true. It was sealed because under state law, she was a MINOR and it was handled in the same way as any other minor's. But it was ok to blatantly lie about that stuff, because after all, liberals don't like Bush. I'm waiting to hear that it's his fault I needed eye surgery .... after all everything else seems to be his fault.

Those are the kinds of things that make me want to scream. People need to be reminded of the BS they spewed and helped unfairly spread about someone who didn't share their politics.

As for Palin's stance on abortion, I am attempting to find an article I read. If I remember where it was I'll fwd to Maggie. The media tells us what they want us to know, and they want Obama to win. So, it is highly unlikely that they will promote Palin in a favorable light. BUT, the article I read was from more than a year ago, it was an interview done in Alaska I think, and addressed her pregnancy and son. She clearly stated that although she could never have an abortion because of her personal beliefs, she also believes that the Govt should not tell other women what they can/can't do in this case. Women have fought for years to have the right to do what WE want, what WE believe in. Yet when WE choose to be a stay at home wife/mom, or to say we don't agree with abortion, somehow we're setting back women's rights. I thought we were fighting for the right to make those choices for OURSELVES. Where is NOW in defense of Palin for daring to make a choice others might not support?

I live in AZ, I am not a John McCain fan, as Maggie knows. BUT, I am a Cindy McCain fan. Unlike most women in current politics, she displays CLASS at almost every turn, as Laura Bush has. She understands that she will not be the person elected if her husband wins. Hillary never got that, she always thought that she was co-President and Dems were fine with that. I was not. My husband has a job. He was hired to do that job, I was not. Michelle Obama will not stay in the background, and after reading her college dissertation, I would suggest she is on par with us putting a practicing KKK member in the White House. I would do neither.